Benay: [00:00:00] Hello this is Benay Dyor, the Coach Guardian. And welcome from wherever you are to Coach Pep Talk, the podcast for people who run their own coaching businesses. Each week I talk to an expert who shares wisdom that helps us be better coaches and better coaching business owners. This week I’ve got sales strategist extraordinaire Jeremy DeMerchant on the line talking to us about our client enrolment calls. So see you on the other side.

Benay: [00:00:30] Would you like to be able to manage all of your coaching clients beautifully, efficiently online from one single space? Where all of your information, meeting times, workbooks, videos are all in just one protected, secure, backed up zone, that you know, you can get access to no matter what happens to your computer? No matter where you are in the world. If you answered a resounding YES, then you’ve got to check out Life Coach Office. It’s a one-stop-shop coaching software package for your coaching business where you can do all of that and more. The best way to know if Life Coach Office is going to be a good fit for your coaching business or not, is to jump on and give it a try. You’ve got an option for a free seven-day trial and all you need is an email address to sign up. So go in and check out Life Coach Office and sign up for that free seven-day trial. You can do that at LifeCoachOffice.com.

Benay: [00:01:26] Today’s guest is Jeremy S. DeMerchant, the sales strategist. He’s a best-selling author and international speaker and the founder of Permission to Sell Consulting Group. Jeremy helps entrepreneurs and sales professionals through powerful sales conversations and strategies. Let’s hear what Jeremy has to say on the enrolment call.

Benay: [00:01:49] Hello Jeremy and welcome to the show.

Jeremy DeMerchant: [00:01:52] Thanks for having me.

Benay: [00:01:53] I am looking forward to this conversation so much. This is a concept that’s coming up in my mastermind groups and my signature program course as well. And I know that all of my students are dying to hear the outcome of this conversation. So no pressure at all. I’m so excited that we’re going to be talking about discovery call mastery today because it’s such an important skill that a lot of coaches I’ve noticed are e really terrified up. So thank you for being here.

Jeremy DeMerchant: [00:02:21] My pleasure.

Benay: [00:02:25] I’d Like to kick off the show by just addressing the elephant in the room first because there are so many coaches who are just terrified of selling and I just thought it would be really cool, because I know that this is your mojo your magic area. Were you always this way? Did you come out of the womb like ready to sell? Or was there like this defining moment where you saw the truth and the beauty and the glory about being a sales guy? Can you tell us a little bit about your story there?

Jeremy DeMerchant: [00:02:55] Yeah well I was the most antisocial kid you’d ever meet. I was a little overweight, had these really sexy glasses which made me the least popular kid in school. And I basically got to the point where I didn’t like my peers. I didn’t like kids because I was a kid that was bullied. And I ended up getting a job at a local convenience store because as I stopped caring about impressing my friends, I wanted to focus on impressing my parents and teachers and all the other adults in the world. So I had a good relationship with the gentleman that owned the local convenience store across the road from my house. And so he offered me a job it was like zero training. just come in and start selling and it was pretty transactional to start. but One weekend this lottery ticket, this scratch ticket arrived and it had the brand of a billiards hall, called Dooley’s here in Canada and I like to play pool. No I clearly was too young. I was about 14 so I couldn’t buy these scratch tickets -wink wink- but I got really excited and so the first person to walk through the door that day, I shared with them that I was excited, I was like have seen this ticket? And She ended up buying two. I went, huh that’s interesting. The next person came and I said Hey would you like a ticket, check these out. And he walked away with one or two. And I realized that my enthusiasm about something, can impact somebody buying decision. And so that weekend, it was just a Saturday and Sunday that I worked, But I sold out of those tickets because I was really excited about them. And it was like this light bulb moment for me. And although I’m still, honestly, I’m not great socially, but in anything that can be structured as a sales conversation or a strategy session, even socially, I’m fine. But the small talk stuff I’m still not great at to be honest. So The system actually works and it’s completely changed me from the terrified, introverted child to I’ve launched my own business, I’ve spoken throughout Canada and U.S. Complete game changer for me. So the short answer is, no I wasn’t this way out of the womb. It all came down to a little scratch ticket.

Benay: [00:05:16] That’s an amazing story. Thank you so much for sharing that with me and my audience. It’s just beautiful. But I think it really does, you know, it does awaken in the real essence of selling and that is that you’re genuinely excited about something and you want to share that with somebody else.

Jeremy DeMerchant: [00:05:35] Absolutely.

Benay: [00:05:36] That’s awesome. OK. So at a high level, let’s get into this, what is the end-to-end process in a sales conversation or sales process? What’s the process of a sales process, Jeremy?

Jeremy DeMerchant: [00:05:55] Well I could get really really granular in here but I won’t. I actually, I’m a big fan of simplicity and one, someone that I would consider a mentor is Jim Brown and he had this ability to take these most in-depth, or complex concepts and Bring them to such a simple key lesson. And so I kind of like to use his philosophy when I look at bigger concepts and I just like to keep it simple. So I’ve actually designed a process that I’ve actually given two titles to. One thing I call it is the Four E’s of Client Enrollment. Sometimes I referred to it as the Circles of Attraction. And so I’ve broken the sales process down into four key sections and once I described them they will make a lot of sense to me because everything that happens, anything that you personally experienced or your audience has experienced in pursuing clients in enrolling clients, fits into this structure. So it is helpful if you picture think about four circles kind of inside each other so a bigger one on the outside going into a smaller one in the middle.

Benay: [00:07:01] So we’re looking like a target.

Jeremy DeMerchant: [00:07:03] Like a target exactly.

Benay: [00:07:05] Got it.

Jeremy DeMerchant: [00:07:06] And so the outside circle I call EXPOSURE. So this is the first time that your potential client or a prospect is exposed to you. so in that in a traditional networking setting, maybe this is you walk into the room, you got a great smile on your face and you’ve got a lot of energy and you just catch someone’s attention or vice versa, They catch yours. And this also can apply online like Facebook ads, anyway that you pop up in front of your ideal client. And then from the EXPOSURE stage people and want to experience you. But from a distance. So for example on your Facebook, there’s probably thousands of people that see your post but don’t engage with you. Right? They’re sitting back to get a feel for how you interact in a traditional networking setting. This is somebody that’s kind of sitting back in the corner just keeping an eye on how you’re interacting with people. If there’s hor de voures, it’s in how polite is she when she takes a bite. How polite is she dealing with the servers? Does she look like she’s carrying herself with confidence? Experiencing you from afar, so happens in traditional setting or online. So this is what people can read your posts and watch your videos. This is why blogs are really important because people can consume content and build trust with you without having to put their hand up and say hey I’m paying attention.

Benay: [00:08:31] So what E is this? We had explored for the outer ring and then I think…

Jeremy DeMerchant: [00:08:35] Oh sorry, this is EXPERIENCE.

Benay: [00:08:36] Experience.

Jeremy DeMerchant: [00:08:38] Experience. So yeah they are going to experience you, but it’s kind of from a far.

Benay: [00:08:40] Yeah.

Jeremy DeMerchant: [00:08:41] And then once they’ve had this experience and they build up the confidence or they decide that you’re an appropriate fit, they move to the stage that I call ENGAGEMENT. And so this is in social media, if they click like, they comment. In a networking setting they come up and introduce themselves to you. This is where they’re comfortable enough to say hey I’m paying attention. Notice me back. And then the final e is ENROLMENT and this is some kind of conversation that is a conversion activity of some sort. So it could be from that networking conversation, hey let’s get together and have a 60-minute strategy session or a 15-minute discovery call, or let’s just follow up in two days and see if there’s some way I can help you. Of course there’s a full conversation that go on before you try to make that close. But those are kind of the four steps the EXPOSURE, the EXPERIENCE, the ENGAGEMENT, and the ENROLMENT. So think of yourself standing in the middle of that target. The further somebody is in proximity, and this actually was when I designed it was actually based on a trade show, how far somebody was out from your booth, how to get them closer and closer. But it applies to the general sales process as well.

Benay: [00:10:03] Yeah I can see it. I can definitely see it my business. I’m thinking of my clients. I can see it. Yeah it works.

Jeremy DeMerchant: [00:10:10] And so in order to get them to that enrolment almost always they need to go through these stages. There’s there’s different ways you can get them through each stage more quickly. So for example a sales conversation, or a strategy session, or discovery call can build that like, know and trust factor a lot more quickly than if they just read your blog and then they download a freebie from your website and then they go through some follow up emails. that stuff can that can work, But it’s a lot slower process.

Benay: [00:10:39] Yeah yeah.

Jeremy DeMerchant: [00:10:40] There’s a lot of power in discovery sessions and strategy sessions that make a complete game changer for business.

Benay: [00:10:49] Yeah so let’s. I mean the purpose of our… Thank you for setting a scene, that was exactly what I was looking for and I love the… How easy it is, I mean I’m sure that my target with the four rings and then wrote my three my four E words in the middle and it’s like, oh yeah that makes perfect sense. So thank you for laying it out so so visually too for our visuals in and the visual listeners who are tuning in. So this this call really is all about that strategy session or the Discovery Session. Can we do we need to cover anything else in the three E’s before we like hone in on that centerpiece. I get that you’re a wealth of knowledge about all that stuff, but I want to make sure we leave with the end prize of today which is some real clarity around how to make our discovery sessions even more powerful and successful.

Jeremy DeMerchant: [00:11:34] I think the key piece is exposure is that first that first exposure right? How do you get in front of somebody new or how do you notice potential prospect? The experience is that they want to experience you from afar before they decide they want to move forward. Engagement is that willingness to let you know they’re paying attention, and then the enrolment is kind of the core magic of this conversation.

Benay: [00:11:57] Okay excellent. So let’s talk about that enrolment piece then. What is, first let’s clarify because I know that you like strategy sessions. I know that a lot of coaches in my network are talking about discovery calls. Can you tell us a little bit about what they are and how they’re different? Is one better than another? Just sort of lay the groundwork for us there.

Jeremy DeMerchant: [00:12:26] Sure. So a lot of people use the terms discovery call and strategy session or Discovery Session and Strategy Session interchangeably and in my mind they’re not the same. I look at it I think of a discovery call as being on a phone to discover something about the prospect, ultimately you want to convert them into a client, but it’s more about asking them about their situation. Discovering what their goals and their needs are. Where, my approach is what I would call a strategy session. These are typically longer and I actually do share strategies, so here is the biggest difference, a discovery call is from what I’ve seen my experience, they can be anywhere from 10 minutes to 45 minutes and sometimes they go 60 but at that point you’re doing more than just discovering. Where my strategy sessions are typically 60 Minutes and sometimes I creep over and the biggest differentiator is Discovery calls tend to be free. My strategy session, because I can say that I will give you value no matter what, I can charge for this. And so the way that typically works on my end I’ll say the investment is for example 147 dollars, and if at the end of our session you don’t feel like you’ve gotten at least that value from the call, Then I’ll refund your money before the call is done. And this is where and why this part matters, because if somebody is not willing to invest money for that strategy session then they are probably not in a position to invest in my services. Does that make sense?

Benay: [00:14:13] Yeah. So it’s a filter.

Jeremy DeMerchant: [00:14:15] It is, it’s a qualifier. yeah.

Benay: [00:14:17] Qualifier.

Jeremy DeMerchant: [00:14:19] and that’s really the key. Because one thing that I’ve found is that when I get off the phone with somebody if I didn’t make the sale I don’t feel bad about it. I don’t want to be attached to that outcome and that’s kind of another piece of it that We’ll talk about. But if my goal is to give value so that they, the prospect, can actually take something from it and take action whether or not they hire me, then I think I’ve done a good job. And this approach has resulted in people that I initially say no, often sending me e-mails saying how much they appreciate the content and then they end with coming back to me for additional support anyway because I’ve built them, like you know, trust factor and I can also get referrals that way, just because I wasn’t the right fit for them right now, Doesn’t mean I have to burn that bridge.

Benay: [00:15:13] Yeah.

Jeremy DeMerchant: [00:15:14] I’m Not that that sales person that wants to say you know, make a decision now. You got to, you know, you want to change your life. You want to make it happen. All that high pressure stuff. I don’t Like that. And I think that’s one of the challenges a lot of, especially coaching space. People become coaches because they want to help people and their resistance to sales tends to be because they feel that that is the opposite of helping.

Benay: [00:15:38] Yeah definitely.

Jeremy DeMerchant: [00:15:40] So that’s the big difference for me.

Benay: [00:15:42] Well and that’s cool. I mean the strategy session really turns it around because you’re getting paid so you can, you’re valuing your work and they’re valuing your work. And there’s always that get out clause, that if they didn’t get value they get their money back. So it’s like it’s just good karma all the way around.

Jeremy DeMerchant: [00:15:57] And the best part in my experience, so I’ve been in business for nearly four years now, and I’ve never wanted somebody asked for the refund.

Benay: [00:16:04] I believe that having met you. By the way listeners, I met Jeremy on a strategy call, I called in about a certain course. Jeremy was the man who took the call and he was just blowing me away with how amazing he is. So I was like, hey will you come on the podcast and just share your mojo with our listeners because coaches need to know how to do this stuff with the grace that you know, you know how to do it with. Okay so why are… Well we can we can change the language if you want to know where said we’re going to talk about discovery calls, but why are discovery calls and/or strategy sessions such important or powerful sales tools in that you know, once you get to that enrollment phase?

Jeremy DeMerchant: [00:16:53] The nice thing about it, I mean I kind of touched on it earlier. If you have a prospect, you want them to read your blog and download your freebie and go through an email sequence for 18 months and then someday maybe they’ll jump on some kind of webinar and maybe they’ll buy. That’s the online marketing approach basis, there’s ways to speed it up obviously. But even when you go through the online marketing structure you’re more likely to get a seven-dollar sale, or forty-seven dollars and 97 dollars’ sale. whereas, if you have a strategy session you have the ability to build a much higher level of rapport. A higher level of trust. And so the person that’s potentially going to invest in in your product or service, they get to know you as a person. And today we hear all this talk about ‘be authentic’, be the real you. I think it’s great because it’s far too easy for somebody to fake a persona online. I mean, put a nice website up and then you look like your professional. Well I’m speaking to you from my home office. I don’t mind that I don’t necessarily look totally professional at the moment, I did take the blazer off today. But that’s me and I want people to know me for who I am, because if I’m going to work with them one on one for the next 3, 6, 9, 12 months, better get along from the start. If somebody comes in under false pretenses it’s going to either be a real struggle as we argue about an agreement that they made, or we’re going to have a really awkward breakup in the near future. does that make sense?

Benay: [00:18:31] It does. It really does. And what I like about it too… I mean I’ve I started my first online business in 2009 and I can really see it you know, as I’ve been going along selling information products and then online courses, but there’s been a real shift in I think moving away from that kind of approach and a real reconnection with personal interaction. It might still be online through a Zoom call or something but you’re still talking to a real person as opposed to just buying a thing. And where…you Don’t… You’re missing that personal connection. So I mean this approach of a strategy session just really, I guess, kick starts that personal connection straight away and it just it just takes that relationship to a whole other level. It’s a whole lot warmer, connected, integrated. It’s got good karma. Like there’s just, I can see so much power to it and I really feel that with technology and everything else sort of speeding up the world as it is right now, the people are really craving that you know, what like wow I’m getting to talk to you. And really valuing that more and more and more.

Jeremy DeMerchant: [00:19:41] Yeah absolutely, in fact not to get too far off track, that exact reason is why people are using chat box on websites now.

Benay: [00:19:50] OK.

Jeremy DeMerchant: [00:19:51] Because it actually can increase your sales by up to 40 percent because they have that human touch in a world that’s all digital.

Benay: [00:19:57] Wow OK. And that is a whole other conversation. Let’s park that one, I’ve got to keep coming across this term over and over and over. It’s clear I got it. I got to do something about that for my listeners. They’re probably wondering like ooh, Tell me more. OK. Let’s keep going. So does every coach need to be able to do strategy sessions or discovery calls whichever they decide is the best for their business or not?

Jeremy DeMerchant: [00:20:25] Well it depends on what level you want to support people. So in my opinion, and it is just my opinion, if you want to help people in a one-on-one or high level small group environment then you need to have some process that you filter and qualify people. And have the ability to develop a strong level of that trust like you know, that I’ve mentioned a few times now. So as a coach you could conceptually enroll people into you know, a ninety-seven or a hundred ninety-seven dollars a month group coaching program through automated webinars forever and ever. And that might be fantastic. But if you want to work at a higher level and have people be willing to invest at a higher level with you, then that strategy session piece is really valuable. As you build a brand and build authority, it doesn’t necessarily have to be you personally doing those sessions. So for example, when you and I met actually I was… The company that ran the training that you saw is one of my clients. And so they invested in hiring me to do those strategy sessions. And that’s because they have a process in place where they can already build a high level of authority. But even in that scenario we found that we need more direct contact between the prospect and them and not just have me as the middleman. So that relationship piece is just so huge. And I think the balance is if you’ve got a larger platform and you’ve you know, you’ve been published. This is just examples you need all these but you know, if you’ve been you know, you’re a contributor to Forbes magazine or something or a magazine and you’re a published author and bestseller list or you’re just on stage, something that you… Or your social media following is so large that you’ve got this big audience right. And so you’ve got this an authority piece build up then it’s okay to have somebody at least pre-qualify these calls before you go one-on-one with somebody. But I still think if you want to have people invest at higher levels and when I say to higher levels I mean like 15 to 50 thousand dollars a year to work with you. You want to have a conversation.

Benay: [00:22:55] Definitely. Do you see any need for having a conversation for anything below say that fifteen-thousand-dollar mark?

Jeremy DeMerchant: [00:23:06] It really depends on the program. I actually just saw a training recently and they suggested that when you’re doing a webinar, anything that’s 3000 or above should have a strategy session as kind of like a buy application only type of process. so You meet with a member of our team to see if you do the right fit. Those are more of a discovery call scenario, but because it truly is about qualifying and less about helping build strategy. But that three-thousand-dollar mark was the, was kind of that level that was suggested in the training. That makes a lot of sense to me. You see people all over the place selling the 1997 programs and it’s just sign up on the order page and here’s the link. But there’s something above that where this is sort of become the norm. Like Typically coaching programs are $997 to $1997 and if you want higher level support you’re going to invest more. so. So I think that then it wasn’t you that kind of took that number out. But it makes sense to me.

Benay: [00:24:07] Yeah. OK. Yeah that’s good to have baseline. I mean because that was that was what I was digging at with this question was you know, if a coach is thinking Oh okay well do I Should I be integrating discovery or strategy sessions in my enrollment process or not. Like if there is a price point where you know, they’ve got a product that is that 197 or maybe even a 1000-dollar program then it sounds like it’s not an obvious yes.

Jeremy DeMerchant: [00:24:35] Right. However, I will mention I know there’s a lot of coaches that are struggling to get their first few sales their first few clients. And for anyone that’s a new kind of in that phase or maybe you’ve been coach for a while and you just want to be able to generate income more quickly and help people at a higher level. Those conversations are still your fastest path to cash. You know, creating the webinars, E-mail sequences, there are so many hurdles that you can force yourself to procrastinate because you’re worried about it being perfect. You just go to a local networking event, introduce yourself to people and keep showing up, consistency is key for that stuff. The more You speak to people, I have a day each week, And the theme is community. And so I go to Toastmasters meetings. I go to a local startup accelerator place and just speak to people. Get involved in Chamber of Commerce networking events just to continue to have those conversations because you never know when someone’s going to say you know what It’s funny I was thinking about you yesterday because of a conversation we had three months ago.

Benay: [00:25:41] Yes.

Jeremy DeMerchant: [00:25:42] And if you can get into those conversations you can go from someone that barely knows you to a 30-thousand-dollar sale in a single conversation.

Benay: [00:25:51] OK. So it sounds like especially for new coaches. Oh should I be wasting my time doing discoveries calls or strategy sessions. It sounds like Yes.

Jeremy DeMerchant: [00:26:00] Yes yes it is.

Benay: [00:26:02] It’s the fastest way to actually see if you’re a good fit or not. And then one thing that I love about I’ve just sort of you know, been in an online world for so long and kind of pulled away from doing discovery sessions and I’ve reengaged with them in the last year and I’ve just really enjoyed the connection and the hearing the language and the problems and it’s just keeping my work a whole lot more fresh. And it’s been really valuable for my whole creation process. So I’ve been enjoying that double side of the connection too.

Jeremy DeMerchant: [00:26:35] Absolutely. If you can record your strategy sessions or discovery call just to hear the language that your ideal client is using when they describe their problem. They basically write your marketing material for you.

Benay: [00:26:48] Totally you can just knock out a sales page in like 30 minutes.

Jeremy DeMerchant: [00:26:55] I don’t know how many times I’ve gotten off a call and There was a problem that came up that made total sense that I should be able to solve and I just hadn’t thought of it. The other really nice thing about this strategy session is you can create a custom plan for somebody. Your Like wow I absolutely want to help this person. You’re not stuck into the box of well my program does X, Y, and Z. You can say you know what, let’s work together for the next 90 days to help you achieve A, B, and C and then at that point we’ll revisit and see how much progress we’ve made and decide what happens next.

Benay: [00:27:26] Yeah okay. I think I’ve been that kind of pulls in some of the consulting techniques which which is really nice. I think this merger of being a consultant and a coach especially in the enrollment process is really beneficial. So I don’t know if you agree, I come from a consulting background so I just see the fit.

Jeremy DeMerchant: [00:27:46] I’m in the same boat.

Benay: [00:27:47] Yeah. Okay cool let’s get into it, I know everybody’s probably like, ok Tell us how do we do it, We’re so excited, we want to know the steps. So how do you… How do you conduct a successful discovery strategy session? What are the steps and the tips?

Jeremy DeMerchant: [00:28:06] Well I’ve broken down into seven main steps. I mean this has come from well three plus almost four years of picking out what other people teach and do really well and My own experiences with a lot of strategy sessions. So the first one we touched on is filter. I once found myself in a situation where I had five calls in a week and I didn’t close any. And I got really stressed and I talked to my coach and I said what’s going on? And they said well he said, well you’re not qualifying them, you’re just having sessions with anybody that will spend the ninety-seven dollars at that time. And I realized I was, I hadn’t positioned it properly, so filtering is the first one and so that can either be done with an application or with a fee like we talked about or both. I know, I’m not sure if your familiar with Justin Livingston but he has a really high end mastermind program and he gets you to invest five hundred dollars as an application fee. Before you even talk to anybody. And it’s a 25000 our program or at least it was last time I looked. And so it makes total sense if you can’t swing 500 dollars. You’re not going to probably be interested in sending 25000.

Benay: [00:29:20] Got it right. Yeah.

Jeremy DeMerchant: [00:29:22] And there was an application to go with that as well. So filter is the first one. The second is frame for authority. So often we try to have some form of a strategy session or discovery call on the fly like we get into a conversation at a networking event and suddenly we think we should get into a sales conversation. And that doesn’t work because, or even if you say hey let’s grab a coffee next week, don’t do that in your coaching business. It’ll eat up your time and it will not get you results. What’s really important is to be able to frame it as, if you want to connect with somebody The week after a networking event, say for example, say hey I’m going to call you Tuesday and let’s chat and see what makes sense. Talk to them for 15 minutes, I refer to it as a coffee chat, but you don’t physically go for coffee. And within the 15 minutes you determine whether or not there is an opportunity for the strategy session and then say, hey look why don’t we book a 60-minute strategy session and then you frame it and you say you know, this is going to be a formal session, you can talk about an investment or there’s an application fee or whatever you decide is for the filter. But you frame it so that they are really clear that this is a specific session that you offer to prospective clients and its part of your business. This it hey let’s go hangout and talk for now. And so that framing positions that completely in a different light because then okay this is your position as an expert, this isn’t you that I met three years ago that was thinking about starting a business, this is, whoa She’s got this figured out. She’s got a framework. It’s amazing what a framework does for authority. And you just stick with a structure, does that makes sense?

Benay: [00:31:06] Yeah yeah. And it’s so it’s an it’s a nice in a way it’s I’m just thinking it’s linear because we’ve got the filter because we got an application or a cost, but then we got a frame for authority which could actually be running, it could actually be first that one.

Jeremy DeMerchant: [00:31:23] It could Yeah. So it depends on the situation, but you’re absolutely right, it can go in either order. The important part is that framing for authority that the person that you’re meeting with doesn’t feel like it’s just a chat. Don’t they just a chat to get in front of somebody and try to make it into a strategy session. Set it up as this is a strategy session.

Benay: [00:31:43] Okay cool. Now it’s like oh god, do you have a script for that 15-minute coffee chat?

Jeremy DeMerchant: [00:31:50] I don’t have it right now but I can grab it off of my iPhone next time.

Benay: [00:31:58] Yeah. Like so the outcome, what is the end goal for that one? Like what’s the mindset that the coach should be and if they’re gonna have this, do this frame for authority step with this 15-minute coffee chat which is actually just a phone conversation?

Jeremy DeMerchant: [00:32:12] Well so the key is to identify an option. This actually could be described as what I would call a discovery call, 15-minute discovery call. Just to see if there’s a match, if there’s a problem that you think you can solve. If you can add value to that person’s life. You’re trying to establish that in that 15 minutes. And if you can then say great, let’s actually do a full strategy session. Let me make sure you walk away with a plan to achieve X, Y, Z that you mentioned when we spoke earlier. And at the end if there’s more that we can do together and it feels like a fit then we can can talk about it from there.

Benay: [00:32:47] cool. So this I can see this working really well if you’re going out networking and you’re meeting people and events face to face. Does it work the same if you’re if you’ve been meeting online? I mean you know, like in in Facebook groups? Could you give us a, paints a picture of how that how that might play itself out?

Jeremy DeMerchant: [00:33:05] Absolutely. So there’s a couple of ways, it depends on the conversation you’ve had a lot of these things happen through Facebook Messenger once you get them from the conversation in the group. But typically what I would say is if the conversation starts in the groups, I’ll say hey PM me if you have a question about this, or I shoot them a private message and I let them know if the private group that I did that. Then in that private message it’s very open ended, you know its Tell me a little bit more about whatever the topic is. Because I want to get a feel for their pain point, and I want to have some background before I say let’s jump on the call, because they don’t want them to feel like I’m this hungry coach looking to close my next sell. I want them to get the feeling, and this is really the posture, that I’m here to add value. And if that value is to the point where we need to create a relationship, a professional relationship, then I’m willing to do that as well. But let’s see first.

Benay: [00:34:04] Yeah. Got it.

Jeremy DeMerchant: [00:34:05] So if your kind of have made people feel like they need to prove themselves to you, or qualify themselves you, it just changes the dynamic. Does that make sense?

Benay: [00:34:18] Yeah it does make sense. It’s very powerful and it’s not, I mean like you could listen to just the words that you just said and think oh I don’t want people to have to prove himself to me. But there’s something very gentle and beautiful about that. Whereas if you just listen to the words they actually might sound a bit brutal, but the intention I think is is is really pure. Can I say that word?

Jeremy DeMerchant: [00:34:42] Absolutely. Yeah I guess. I mean you want to qualify them and you want the change in the relationship, when your posture shifts from oh my goodness I need a client to let’s see if this person’s the right fit to work with me. It changes your posture you come across with more confidence. it just feels different to the prospect because they automatically feel a different level of authority. And it doesn’t feel like you’ve got what I call commission breath. And your right, it sticks. You don’t commission breath, because it scares away your ideal clients.

Benay: [00:35:24] I love that, That it’s funny. OK well, let’s keep going. So we’ve got we’ve got the filters step, we’ve got the frame for authority step, what’s next?

Jeremy DeMerchant: [00:35:31] The next is frame for the offer. So when you’re actually in the Strategy Session I like to start off by saying, over the next 60 minutes my goal is to support you and ensure that you’ll be the session with the tools and strategies you can implement right away. After the 60 Minutes, if we both feel that we are a fit and I can support you in accomplishing those goals, I may invite you to join one of my programs. Is that fair? And nobody’s going to say no. Right.

Benay: [00:35:59] Yes.

Jeremy DeMerchant: [00:36:00] Right. And so what that does is you’re getting the permission to make an offer at the end. And that way you don’t have that awkward shift at the end where you go, oh Now has gonna sell me something. So it’s value, value, value, value and then it’s not even about selling it’s more about inviting that we’ll talk about in a second.

Benay: [00:36:23] Wonderful.

Jeremy DeMerchant: [00:36:23] So The next step is actually focusing on the process. Now I’ll admit I’m the worst at this step. I ask questions and we even in our conversation that we first had, we went all over the place in fact, we both are really chatty so we actually ended up having two sessions to be able to really get the goal, so in this is the one scenario where I say, do what I say, not what I do. but focus on the process. And so there is a full process that I have and it’s laid out in another document that’s called the five seeds of successful sales conversations and I’ll let your listeners know where they can get that for free at the end of that’s all right?

Benay: [00:37:02] Thank you. That would be awesome!

Jeremy DeMerchant: [00:37:05] But the process, it takes you very step-by-step through five specific steps that you need to have to develop that relationship. Identify the gap that people have you know; why did they think you can help them? What inspired them to connect with you? And so you learn more about them, so go toe in-depth and in this particular conversation. But in that cheat sheet, it’s an it’s a really great resource. So I encourage everybody to download that.

Benay: [00:37:34] What am I what I’m hearing is like it’s so great that they can print it out, jump on a strategy session, follow that process, and feel really good and confident about what they’re doing.

Jeremy DeMerchant: [00:37:47] It really is that good.

Benay: [00:37:48] Awesome, ok, everybody goes and download that. We’ll give you the link at the end and I’ll put it in a show notes too.

Jeremy DeMerchant: [00:37:53] I actually had a client and He closed ten thousand dollar sales and he had it posted to his wall next to his computer screen.

Benay: [00:37:59] Okay.

Jeremy DeMerchant: [00:38:01] Yeah. Did that, yep I did that, ten thousand dollars’ sale closed.

Benay: [00:38:04] This stuff works. OK.

Jeremy DeMerchant: [00:38:08] So the next step is facilitating the opportunity. So I mentioned at the end when it comes time to make the offer it’s less about offering something and more like inviting. And so this is really key, so I make sure that I’m going for the entire 60 minutes focusing on strategy first. Now a lot of people don’t do this, and it does take a fair amount of time. But the clients that hire me, they invest at a fairly high level, so I’m happy to do it. and if I close three out of ten that still is a really great financial result from me and I can create a really great income for the right people. So I don’t mind if there’s you know, 7 or so that aren’t the right fit for me. It’s OK. So facilitating the opportunity is more about inviting them to have a higher level of support. It’s not about making the pitch, making the sale, it’s you know, would you like me to help you? You Mentioned your goals for A, B, and C and I think I can help you with that. Would you like to hear more? And just go into talking about really goal oriented processes that you already have. So if you work one-on-one with people you can mention, you know, you mentioned you want to achieve X, Y, Z. Well we’re going to go first and map out a plan, that’s going to take care of the first two weeks to really get the plan nailed down, and then the next step is going to be A, B, C where we’re going to go here, here, and here because you mentioned you want to achieve this. Does that make sense? And they’re gonna say yes. And so it’s really matching what you can offer with the goals that they stated in that process Part. You’re going to find it there. And if I back up a little bit in that 5 seeds of successful sales conversations, you get really really deep with people. Like this isn’t like what’s What’s your biggest challenge? This is like you can get down to find out people want to make this change in their life because something from their childhood make them, made them want to be just like a parent or the complete opposite of how a parent was. Like you can get really deep in that process. So by this point in the call you’ve got some really personal information that you want to be very respectful with. But also these key pieces are the trigger points for the change that they want to make.

Benay: [00:40:32] Yes so linking them back to the steps, or the modules in your work, in your coaching are essential for them to see. And I guess imagine them achieving that transformation because you’re you’re helping them make the connection, like they don’t just intuitively get it just because they’ve talked about it. You need to help connect the dots, is that what I’m hearing? Have I interpreted that correctly?

Jeremy DeMerchant: [00:40:53] Absolutely. And at this point you’re on the call for 60 Minutes but you haven’t talked much about your program at all. So this is the point where you match it. You don’t even need to get into the nitty gritty. You just need to say you want to achieve this, this is how my program helps you do that.

Benay: [00:41:11] Yeah.

Jeremy DeMerchant: [00:41:11] Go through the key pieces.

Benay: [00:41:14] Okay. And can you let’s just talk just really briefly so the conversation is a 60-minute conversation. This last step or this step five, We’ve got two more to go, facilitate the opportunity. What percentage of the call is that roughly?

Jeremy DeMerchant: [00:41:29] So I can I actually kind of slip into this at about the 55-58-minute mark.

Benay: [00:41:34] Okay. So it’s right at the end.

Jeremy DeMerchant: [00:41:36] I actually almost always go over the 60 Minutes. Which means if somebody, you need to have a good rapport in order for them to actually let you pitch, so I actually this as another qualifier. If we don’t have a good connection at that point I might just say, you know, it was awesome. I don’t know whether were a fit together. But you know, let me know if you have any questions, I’m happy to help.

Benay: [00:41:58] Okay.

Jeremy DeMerchant: [00:41:59] I could just leave it right? But if I feel that connection then the call will just go on.

Benay: [00:42:03] Yeah.

Jeremy DeMerchant: [00:42:05] My First client, the call went on for two hours. Now try not to do that. But it was a really great experience and this client went from no business to six figures in six months because we clicked so well and this person was someone that was really committed to achieving the results.

Benay: [00:42:21] Awesome. Yeah. Yeah. you know, what I’m loving with this is that you’re just not in a rush. You’re being present with the person you’re talking with; you’re looking for a genuine connection. And I just think that if that coaches can take so much value from modeling your experience with that because they often just become deer in headlights and get just get scared and you know, a fear of rejection. But it’s actually not about you know, there is no anticipated outcome. You’re just there to connect and see if you can get excited about helping this person. That was a bit of a ramble but you can probably say all that a whole lot more succinctly.

Jeremy DeMerchant: [00:43:01] And the next F actually is forfeit your assumptions.

Benay: [00:43:06] Okay here we go, nicely lead in.

Jeremy DeMerchant: [00:43:10] And so the key piece here and you and I actually haven’t had a chance to talk about it, but I really encourage my clients to have three levels of offerings and the rule that I have for my clients and for myself as well, is to always offer your client the highest level of support that’s appropriate for them. So it doesn’t matter if you think they’re rolling in money or you’re concerned about them putting food on the table. If you have a program that happens to be twenty-five thousand dollars or fifteen thousand dollars and that’s the one you truly think will make the biggest impact in their life. It’s your responsibility to offer it to them and not, kind of go, kind of back off and shrink yourself down and be nervous about that. Because if you take that option away from them, you don’t know what you might have, what else have taken away from them. I mean if you can change somebody’s life and it happens to be a fifteen-thousand-dollar investment, but it can be a complete game changer to them and you’re nervous because you heard them mention something about struggling to pay a bill, you’re robbing them of that opportunity just because you were scared.

Benay: [00:44:21] Yeah and it’s actually it’s harming them.

Jeremy DeMerchant: [00:44:23] It’s is, absolutely. And so always offer the highest level of support that is appropriate for their circumstances.

Benay: [00:44:34] Yeah.

Jeremy DeMerchant: [00:44:34] Doesn’t matter how much money you think they do or don’t have. And then with the three with the three product model, then you can go down to the next level If the ideal one isn’t the right fit right now. As long as you show that difference in what the support is, compared to the difference in the investment. Typically, people land either the first or the second one anyway. So that’s really really important though because if you just assume people can’t invest in your one-on-one support, the high level support, no one’s ever going to because you’re going to be too nervous to pitch it.

Benay: [00:45:07] Yeah. Yeah. And I think we really owe it, I mean as a part of karma to let adults take personal responsibility for their lives. I mean we’re all coaches; we all have learned that how essential that is in our own life. So yeah we we we’re almost obligated by our trade to allow people to take personal responsibility. I love that step. OK. What’s next? What’s the last step?

Jeremy DeMerchant: [00:45:31] The last step is the one that most people will be nervous about. Friends and colleagues. Because this is the place, so the benefit of doing a strategy session delivered value is even if they don’t say yes, you can still ask them for a referral.

Benay: [00:45:52] Okay.

Jeremy DeMerchant: [00:45:52] So Whether it’s someone that they know, someone that they work with. You can just say, OK so I understand we’re not the right fit right now, that’s fine. I feel like you’ve gotten a pretty good idea of how work, is fair? yeah Great. Can You think of anyone that you think might be a good fit in working with me? And then write them down and just say, hey Could you give me their names? Could you Give me introductions? Side note- he or she who holds the contact information controls the call or the conversation. So if you can get someone to give you that contact information and then set up an introduction if you can. But if you wait for them to introduce you it’ll probably never happen.

Benay: [00:46:32] OK so just go ahead and reach out once you’ve got that referral. Or…

Jeremy DeMerchant: [00:46:37] I would actually get both have both of their emails and say hi Sharon. I had a conversation with Jimmy last week and he mentioned that you and I should connect and you Had these specific goals. Would love to set up a strategy session, and for referrals I wave my strategy session fee or something like that. Right because a referral is like a better qualifier than an application or a fee.

Benay: [00:46:57] Cool. Okay that’s a nice tip thank you for throwing that in there. Excellent. Okay and what kind of what kind of response rate? I’m just curious what kind of response rate do you normally get on those kind of referrals?

Jeremy DeMerchant: [00:47:11] Quite frankly there, you mean when I do reach out to the referrals?

Benay: [00:47:16] Yeah. Yeah I mean if you know, there wasn’t that introduction step you know, from the other person, if you just reach out and I’m guessing you’re copying in the person who referred you into that email?

Jeremy DeMerchant: [00:47:25] Yeah. In fact, quite honestly I often do over messenger, I’ll just include them both in the initial message so there’s that kind of third party validation.

Benay: [00:47:35] Yeah.

Jeremy DeMerchant: [00:47:36] And typically it’s great because when there’s a referral I do waive the fee. The qualifier. And people are really open to it because once you remove the fee then there’s less risks because they don’t know who you are typically, right? They just know that Jimmy said that it could be a great fit. Okay well I trust Jimmy and so you know, I’ll talk to the guy and then you’re going through this high value strategy session process. You get to see if they’re a good fit, but they also get a taste of what you do.

Benay: [00:48:07] Yeah.

Jeremy DeMerchant: [00:48:08] Right? So you know, it may not be a sale, and one piece that it isn’t built into this model, but is super important, is to never be attached to the outcome, right? So I mentioned that earlier, focus on delivering the value and focus on the process. So ultimately we’re salespeople and We can’t control the outcome, but we can control the activities. So if you’re going step-by-step through the activities, eventually the sales will come.

Benay: [00:48:36] And I don’t… I’ve been you know, I’m not somebody who really loves sales or sales calls and I can I can be a bit nervous. But I find that once I do have a good process and I’ve tried it once or maybe twice in some cases and I feel comfortable with it then actually It’s actually a really fun conversation. It just, it’s not scary anymore because I’ve got this process, I know why each step is there, and I just trust it. And you know, at the end at the end of the day you end up connecting in having a really enriching conversation with somebody. Yes. So thank you for giving us such an amazing process.

Jeremy DeMerchant: [00:49:12] Yeah my pleasure.

Benay: [00:49:14] So let’s see where do we want to go now. I think that you know, this is feeling really really complete to me especially with the lovely handout you’re offering to all of our listeners. So let’s let’s. I just like to in my wrap up I like to just have you reflect for a minute about, or a couple of seconds, about everything we just talked about today. And if our listeners could take just one piece of gold or one thing that they integrate into their life and their business as a result of having listened to this podcast today, what would you what would you like that to be?

Jeremy DeMerchant: [00:49:57] Well I don’t want to overshadow the process we spent most of the time on, but I think the one piece that makes the biggest impact, especially to coaches, is that last thing we mentioned, not being attached to the outcome. often we get onto a call and whether it’s you know, we feel we need to make a sale, or we need to get our first client, we start focusing on okay I’m going to make the sale, I’m going to make the sale, I’m going to make the sale. Well we’re in the wrong mindset, in fact, initially when I started my biggest sales were made late at night when I was exhausted and truly didn’t care. This call is done. It’s been 60 plus minutes. And I remember the first one. The lady she said yes to eleven-thousand-dollar proposal. And I was like, oh ok close it and I remember going into the room, wait a minute, I closed an $11,000 plan. Well I started to wake up. I was really tired. So it’s interesting how you can detach yourself from that outcome and how more relaxed you can be mean. That’s really the key piece if you just separate yourself from the outcome and make it about going through the process. How many calls can I make, how many people can I speak to, how many relationships can I develop. then the rest will just come.

Benay: [00:51:13] Yeah. Yeah. That’s beautiful. So Just let go of the outcome. Trust the process and just do it.

Jeremy DeMerchant: [00:51:21] Right do I have time for a very short story?

Benay: [00:51:22] Yes please.

Jeremy DeMerchant: [00:51:23] So that one client that I mentioned that went from no business, to six figures in six months. I remember that that was the first time I pitched a big ticket sale and I remember I was using a video chat software and I was in New Brunswick, in Canada and he was in a different province and I remember the language that I use, I said and investment to work with me island I gave the price and it for that for the full year. And if you pay up front I’ll give you five thousand dollars’ discount to get into that level and that. And then I just remembered that I had to sit in silence because, another side tip, the person that breaks the silence is the one that gets sold, it’s a horrible language around that but that’s the most important.

Benay: [00:52:13] Yeah I’ve heard that one before. It’s true. Yeah I’ve practiced it. It’s okay.

Jeremy DeMerchant: [00:52:18] I just remember staring at my image on the video chat with a straight face to ensure that I didn’t change my look. So there was no, like inside I was going oh my gosh, oh my gosh, oh my gosh, my gosh. But I was in video so I can’t do that right? I just sat there and stared and it was about two and a half minutes of sitting in silence staring at my own image because I didn’t want to look at him and I was like you know, what’s he gonna say, what’s he gonna say, I’m really nervous. And he came back with, if I pay for 4 months up front can I still get a discount. I was like that is the right Question, Okay.

Benay: [00:52:55] Was it really two and a half minutes? That is an eternity when you’re on a call like this.

Jeremy DeMerchant: [00:53:02] You’re telling me. Well I don’t know exactly how long it was but that’s the closest number I guess. I mean it felt like 50 minutes.

Benay: [00:53:08] Yeah I can imagine. I mean sometimes 30 seconds can feel like an eternity. Yeah. Wow. So he was just he was just calculating in his head.

Jeremy DeMerchant: [00:53:17] Yeah this is this is one of the key pieces is that when you interrupt someone’s thought process, we don’t know what it was we interrupted, we assume based on silence that were uncomfortable with, that they need more information to make a decision. But really need to and this is actually in that cheat sheet, the five seeds of successful sales conversations, you need to, forgive my language, but just shut up. And let their brains process.

Benay: [00:53:41] Yeah. I’m so glad you did share that story with us. Thanks Jeremy. I think, yeah that’s a good thing we can all we can all take something from for sure. OK. So thank you so much. I mean you’ve just given us so much gold and I think competence to jump into our next discovery call strategy session with enthusiasm and joy and curiosity. Just about you know, testing out this process and how it can really change the way we think about sales. If coaches want to learn even more about you and your work, I know you’ve got some amazing online programs that people can get in to tutor to your strategy session and more. How can they how can they find you. Oh yeah. And how can they find your cheat sheet?

Jeremy DeMerchant: [00:54:29] You can actually, going to set up a special link just for your audience.

Benay: [00:54:33] Oh thank you.

Jeremy DeMerchant: [00:54:35] Your Audience that gives you permissiontosell.com/CoachPepTalk.

Benay: [00:54:43] Awesome. That’s nice and easy. OK. And we’ll put that in the show notes as well. So you guys can find it there. And if they want to check out your Website it’s pretty obvious biologist’s let you tell us your Website too. Yes, they can check that out as well.

Jeremy DeMerchant: [00:54:58] Yes so just permissiontosell.com Is the main web site. And I do have sales focused Facebook group which is permissiontosell.group.

Benay: [00:55:07] Excellent. So if you guys are looking for your next sales guru, Jeremy might be just who you’ve been looking for. All right let’s wrap it up there. Thank you so much for all of the information you shared with us today. Really appreciate you coming in and sharing your wisdom with my tribe.

Jeremy DeMerchant: [00:55:25] Thanks for having me appreciate it.

Benay: [00:55:27] And thank you listeners for listening to another episode of Coach Pep Talk be sure to go and like the show on iTunes. That’s great karma for us. And social proof, which is so important in the world of coaching. Have a great day everyone. And happy coaching.

Benay: [00:55:42] Before you head off for the day I have a very special invitation for you, as the founder of Universal Coaching Systems. It’s my mission here on this planet to contribute to raising the vibrational state of humanity. And I do that by helping coach Change makers like you get your absolute best work into the world. Now Universal Coaching Systems, my company, has put together a whole bunch of different resources and tools and assets for you to make a big impact in the world. And I’d really love to share those with you. So what you can do if you’d like to stay involved in the Universal Coaching Systems ecosystem is to go on over to our Web site and opt into our freebie, that’ll get you on our list so that you’ll get up to date with everything we can do to help you, as well as be informed first of our new tools that we’ve got coming out soon. Get your best work to the world by going to UniversalCoachingSystems.com and filling in your name and e-mail address and pressing submit. Happy coaching.