Benay: Welcome to another episode of Coach Pep Talk, the podcast for people who run their own coaching businesses. Each week I talk to an expert who shares wisdom that helps us be better coaches and better coaching business owners. This week I’ve got money mindset extraordinaire Denise Duffield Thomas on the line and she’s talking to us all about healing your money mindset and finding self-love, acceptance, and wealth in your coaching business. So see you on the other side.

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Benay: I’m super excited to have Denise Duffield Thomas on the show today. Denise is the Money Mindset Mentor for the new wave of online female entrepreneurs. Her best selling books “Lucky Bitch” and “Get Rich Lucky Bitch” give a fresh and funny roadmap to create an outrageously successful life and business. Denise helps women release their fear of money, set premium prices for their services, and take back control over their finances. Denise is an award-winning speaker, author, and entrepreneur who helps women transform their economy class money mindset into a first class life. And it’s so true. I’ve been studying with Denise since October last year and she is just fantastic. I’m so excited to have her on the show.

Benay: Hello Denise and welcome to the show.

Denise: Thank you so much for having me. I know this is going to be a juicy conversation. I already know it!

Benay: You already know it. Okay. Well, let’s just jump right in the first question. One thing I’m dying to know is, I know you’ve been in the coaching game for a long time and you’re talking to coaches here on all levels you know that may have just started, or they’ve been coaching for a long time to you, and I’m just curious to know a little bit about where were you, what were you doing when you had your aha moment and you knew you were going to…you were destined to be this money mindset coach?

Denise: Oh wow gosh I have no idea when the exact moment was, but I just I want to say that I got my first coach myself when I was at university. I was 19, I’d just gone to Tony Robbins, and walked on fire, I did that whole thing and I signed up to work with one of the coaches in his program kind of thing. And I remember I’d go to his office and he was kind of a bit of a cheesy coach, to be honest, he would wear, he kind of looked like a magician, he would wear a purple shirt and a purple tie, like a matching thing and bless him, you know he would get me to close my eyes and you would read out of meditation from NLP for Dummies. I kid you not. And you know what that’s the moment I thought, this coaching thing is interesting but I don’t think it’s a real job. So even though I spent all of my high school time, I actually spent most of my university degree coaching and mentoring other people in a leadership program, but I was like this isn’t a real job, so I have to go find a real job. And I spent all of my 20s doing that. Working jobs that I didn’t like and it wasn’t until I was 30 again that I found out about a lady who did a coaching course called Sandy Foster. And I read her book and I loved her and I signed up to go to one of her free calls and I didn’t actually attend it, but someone texted me and said you’ve won a scholarship to Sandys life coaching course. And I was like but I wasn’t even on the call. So that was the moment that I went, oh wow this is really what I meant to be doing and the universe is giving me this little nudge of now is your time to go into this profession. But it took me actually a while to go into the money topic. I started out as a very generic coach, helping anyone with anything, and it took me probably a good year and a half, two years before I felt even like comfortable and confident talking about money. But after that very quickly I felt the calling for it. And I rejected that calling for about six months because I was like, No I’m not the money girl. Send this to someone else. And finally, I realized, oh talking about money does not mean you have to be Susie Orman. It’s okay to contribute to this conversation if you really care about women and money just share what you know and that’s enough. So that’s kind of my whole journey of how I got started as a coach.

Benay: So how…I have a couple… What signs were you getting? You said there were six months when you were resisting being that money coach. What kind of signs was the universe giving you?

Denise: Well, first of all, I was just going to keep it to myself because I was working on my Money Mindset for quite a while. So I was like, I’m just going to keep this to myself. Then I started talking to my clients about it and even just their reaction was, Oh my God this stuff really works. Oh my God, this is blowing my mind. So I actually decided I was going to do one course, one group course. Just one. And that went really well. And so I was like Oh. And I think the calling for me came, and I hear this from other people too, it just came from a real burning in my gut to talk about it. But like a reluctance at the same time. It was like I really, I’m burning to talk about this, but I’m so scared. I would think about it all the time. I was having dreams about it. and I think that’s how it came to me it really felt like this energetic knocking on the door. Like come on, come on. People would ask me, Denise are you going to do a course on money again? And I was like, no go away, I don’t want to talk about this! So that’s how it manifested for me. For other people just this compulsion; I need to do this, but I’m really scared.

Benay: That’s fascinating! I’m currently reading this book called “The War of Art” and it’s all about resistance. I’m still really processing that, but it’s got a lot of what you’re saying like this is burning desire, but also the immense fear and resistance basically. And from my own experience, I’ve noticed that it can be really tricky to identify it, even though it’s staring you in the face somehow. Because you can rationalize we’re so good at rationalizing everything away. Do you have any tricks for helping people know like when that rationalization things happening and when it actually is that real sign that this is what you’re meant to do girl or guy?

Denise: It’s so tricky right because it feels fear and the excitement it feels kind of the same. It’s really hard to know the difference. The way I always do it is if I sort of trick myself and say okay you don’t have to do this and then there’s that thing that’s just like but I want to. So I listen to that and I just say it pressure’s off don’t do it, and it’s kind of that reverse psychology that I use on my daughter all the time. I’m just like ok don’t do it, she’s like I want to now. I go okay and that’s fine too. So that’s how I just did it for myself. I was like don’t talk about money then. And I was like but…ummm. Yes, that’s how I did it.

Benay: That’s an awesome tip. I really I really love it. I’m putting big stars everywhere, I’m taking notes of course. Okay. The other question that I had when you were talking about your story was for the coaches who are out there, you know a lot of the new coaches do just open themselves up to coaching anything at the beginning while they’re learning. What do you think about that as a strategy for getting started versus you know may be doing a lot of planning upfront or focusing in too early? Do you have any and thoughts on that?

Denise: Yes I have met tons of people who have been working on their business plan for five years and don’t have any clients. I’m sure you’ve seen that a lot. I think the truth is you can’t really decide your target market upfront because you don’t know. Well, I think this for most of us, we don’t know what we’re going to like until we’re in that situation and I see this with my hubby Mark because he’s considering becoming a coach. He’s sort of agonizing over who and what. You know all the questions that you have. And I was like just go out and coach 20 people because by the end of that 20 people, or five, or 10, or 100, you’re going to be a little bit closer to that. You’ll go actually I didn’t really like talking about that topic or… And you also know what kind of coach you are, if you’re more of a consultant type coach or a coach that doesn’t care what topics people bring because they’re in that space anyway. So just get a client, see if you like it, then get another client, see if you like that one, and adjust accordingly. That’s my route to it. I know it freaks some people out because they feel like they have to know all the answers before they even get started. And I just don’t see that working out for people, I see it going into procrastination and you never get started. And it doesn’t matter if your first couple of clients are freebies. That’s what I did. And it just gave me so much information and I just refined. You can change it. You can change prices. You can change your target market as you go. Nothing is set in stone.

Benay: So just that forward momentum taking action is really key it sounds like.

Denise: I think so because I just know myself if I get any chance to get out of something I’ll get it. I just have to move forward in baby step actions otherwise I’ll never do anything.

Benay: Baby steps, yeah. Okay, great advice. Yeah, I hope all the coaches who are pondering their early days can just get out there and take action and start coaching. Do you have any tips for when you should stop doing pro bono, or free coaching when you’re starting out?

Denise: Yeah. You know what’s different for everyone. I did I think five clients and I gave them five sessions each or something like that. And I was pretty good at setting the boundary, you know, this is your last free session just to let you know and you can sign up for my packages. I was pretty good at setting the boundary around it and that felt enough for me. I just really, I mean you can charge from day one. If you want to. That’s truly fine. But I see people just get stuck in the pro bono chasm and they don’t know how to get to the other side. And at some point, it’s okay for you to charge. Otherwise, it’s just going to be your hobby. If you want it to be your hobby, continue doing that. If you want to make it your livelihood then you’re going to have to charge people.

Benay: Yeah yeah I often, when I first started I realized, once I started doing my business numbers, like how much it cost to do my cards and have my internet and da da da da da. And then it kind of told me how much I needed to charge. It took similar personal, taking it personally out of it. I don’t know, that really helped me. Is that anything that you would advise or is that sort of hiding? As far as Money Mindset goes?

Denise: You know as a Money Mindset kind of a person, sometimes people think that I have all the answers around pricing or charging, or anything like that or even boundaries. The truth is it’s not a black and white thing. You know you’ve got to feel comfortable where you’re at and the way you run your business. There are no rules. You can find a way that suits you and suits your clients. But what I do see around that stuff is that you know, people chronically undercharge, they have bad money boundaries. You know if someone hasn’t paid they let them kind of get out of it. So there’s just there’s healthy habits and unhealthy habits, but even that is dependent on your personality and the type of clients you want to attract. So you’ve got to just feel like your integrity with yourself and that you’re happy in the way that you’re running your business. You feel like you’re not being taken advantage of, but you also feel integrity around the processes that you’re charging. So there’s no like ever a right or wrong on clearance or on that.

Benay: Yeah I guess that puts good energy around that whole the whole transaction too if you’ve got integrity around it then it’s a win-win. And yeah it’s coming from a different space.

Denise: Yes exactly. You know I…at my very early package, I think it seventy-five dollars for a session, but I did packages of six sessions and they ended up being like 45 dollars each. And I stayed there for a couple months and then I went up to 97, and then I think I did 130, and then 150, then 197, and 250, and then 330, and then 500, and then 750. And I mean there’s no rules about when you can increase your prices, or where you want to stop that. There are no rules. It’s totally dependent on you, your target audience, and the value you feel you bring to people.

Benay: Yeah. Can you tell us a little bit about your journey to making money in your business? Like some stories, some aha moments along your way?

Denise: Yes. So when I first started, as I said I did my freebie sessions with people. I actually started doing workshops in my town and that’s how I got my first couple of clients. I didn’t do it online. My first clients didn’t come from Facebook and they literally came from getting out in front of people and talking about goal setting and then just saying at the end, hey, like not even a good sell, not even close to being a good sell. I would just say, hey guys if you liked what you heard I can help you because I’ve got some coaching sessions. Here is a piece of paper with the details, and you can…I don’t even know if I could take money or think I only got cash, I don’t even remember. So I just made the offer and then after that I blogged every single week without fail, sent out a newsletter every single week without fail, even for those very few people on my list, and I did the exact same thing, here’s some information about, I don’t know, creating a dream board, or doing this, or doing this. And at the end of every single blog post I’d say, and if you would like my help you can book in for an hour coaching session with me. Even though I did not know what I was coaching on. I really couldn’t explain it to people. I couldn’t say here’s the outcome that you would get from a session. All I said was you could spend an hour with me in a coaching session. I went very, very broad because people knew what they wanted to bring to me. They knew what they wanted help with and this is where I see people fall down a little bit. They’re doing the advice bit, they’re giving the free stuff out, but they never make an offer, they never give anyone an opportunity to book in with them. And you have to make it really obvious because people will take free information gladly. But if you just tell them, here’s the next step. Not everyone wants to take that step, but some people are just waiting for you to ask.

Benay: Yeah I think I’m guilty for most of my blog posts. I gotta look at that. You’re really good, I’ve been on your list since I did boot camp last year and yeah you’re transition in your e-mails straight through to you know, here’s what I’ve got right now if you’re interested. They are always very beautiful and very from my heart like it never even feels like a hard sell or anything so that you still doing that it looks like to me.

Denise: Well one tip actually on that, I learned really early on to have a detachment from the outcome, because if you were having people around to dinner and you offered dessert and half the people didn’t want dessert because they were full. Would you like to go in the kitchen and cry about it? Most of us wouldn’t. Well maybe if you spent a long time preparing a dessert, but at coffee and someone’s like I don’t like coffee. I wouldn’t be like you don’t like my coffee! But yet somehow we expect 100 percent conversion or we feel like a personal rejection. So I learned very early on to be detached from the outcome and I actually would even tell people, you know if you don’t sign up with me, your okay, I’m okay, but I know I can still help you. So if you want my help here’s how you can have it. And it just felt low pressure. You know I was like if I hang up from this call and you don’t work with me, I am going to like myself, I’m going to like you, but hey it’d also be fun to work together.

Benay: Yeah that’s cool. Do you have any tips for you know for people who are like oh my gosh I have no idea home and be detached from the outcome of this? They’ve got that attachment between you know their success and the success of their coaching business. Any things they can or cannot do to help them build that detachment?

Denise: Well what helps me was also doing the work that I suggested my clients do, and that was really focusing on love and acceptance of myself. And for me, that’s EFT, emotional freedom technique. Talking to our own coach, having kinesiology, really like doing the work that I needed to do to feel good in myself. Because that’s the most important thing really, feeling good in yourself and having an equilibrium of self-acceptance you know and then you can work on other stuff. I think that’s the only thing that matters.

Benay: Yep, yep that’s so true and your boot camp does that just beautifully too even though it’s under money it actually gets a whole lot deeper than that.

Denise: Well that’s the secret right. Everything that we’re all teaching is all about self-love and acceptance but it comes in different wrappers because people think they need different things.

Benay: Very cool. Okay. Can you tell us a little bit about working hard versus working in harmony and your sort of journey and experiences with that with being a successful online coach entrepreneur?

Denise: Well my first year of coaching I did work really hard, because I had zero boundaries, and I felt like I had to take on every client that came my way. So I was getting up really early to coach say the UK market, so I was getting up sometimes or 4:30, 5:30, 6:00 a.m. for my first coaching session of the day. And then I would coach pretty much back to back and then I would also sometimes do coaching sessions at night because I didn’t want to inconvenience other people who wanted to work me. So and then the rest of the time I was on Facebook, doing social media all day long. And so I decided to set some boundaries, and it felt really scary. And one of the first boundaries was I wasn’t going to wake up at 5:30 anymore. If you wanted to work with me my earliest coaching session was seven o’clock, I think the first boundary. And I was like, if that doesn’t work for you, I’m just not the coach for you. Like no big deal. And then I decided to take certain days off coaching. So I took Mondays and Fridays off my calendar, and I felt like such a bitch. I was like oh no, I have to be available 24/7 when people want me. And I set boundaries with my current clients you know, hey you can’t text me after…You can’t text me at all actually. Let’s take that out of our contract. You know I won’t respond to your emails five minutes after you send them. Just little things like that really helped me see that I didn’t have to work like a dog to be effective to my clients. I didn’t have to work like a dog to make money. I could set boundaries. I could increase my prices. I didn’t have to work as hard all the time. And I could really be a little bit pickier with the clients that I brought on. And everyone knows this, as soon as you have a pain in the butt client, the money just does not seem worth it. It doesn’t. And you know what the boundaries thing is my biggest lesson and it’s something I am constantly working on. Because there’s new boundaries I’m finding all the time. But that was the thing that broke it to me of not having to work so hard. It was realizing you know what I’m allowed to have a break between clients so I can go and have a cup of tea and pee. You know I’m allowed to take a lunch break. Just because someone wants me to work at night doesn’t mean that I have to. Those things really helped.

Benay: And what did you notice in your income levels once your boundaries and it looks like even your self-care really improved drastically?

Denise: It did because a lot of the time the fear we have around putting boundaries or even things like increasing our prices, we feel like we never can have any more clients, or everyone’s going to say no, or reject us. And actually, I realized that most people were like oh yeah that’s fine, okay know I don’t need a coaching session on Friday. It was actually a very rare thing that someone pushed back on it. And same with increasing my prices. That most the time it wasn’t the pushback that I expected it was just my oh okay, alright. I was like oh. So yeah my income did go up because each time I stepped into a new layer of business I actually got more clients. It was very weird and everyone tells you that. You know coaches will tell you that, step forward in faith and it will happen. But each time I was like oh no but this is really the end, I’m never going to get any more clients after this. And I did and I continued to. And yeah, its pretty cool.

Benay: So did you know that you have a big change in your in your business model at some point that helped you take on more clients, or and have that more harmonious experience?

Denise: Yes Well one thing that I really did, I just kept on increasing my prices so I could take on fewer clients. And that freed up time to write a book, to create a course, to make sure there are a lot of resources on my blog. So I did shift more toward one to many models, and that was because it just it suits my personality much better. I found I really maxed out at sort of 10 clients a week. I really couldn’t take on any more. I felt like I just couldn’t increase my prices anymore. I just got to a limit where I was like huh, I can I have a really drastically increase my prices, which I just don’t know if I want to do. Or I can find another model to also supplement this coaching income. And I did the second.

Benay: Okay. Oh goodness I see it we’re getting to our timeline. I’ve got all these other questions.

Denise: That’s ok, I just got a message for my hubby saying it’s going to be 15 minutes, he’s 15 minutes away to pick me up, so we’ve got 15 minutes.

Benay: Perfect! The universe has delivered! Alright, I don’t have to choose then, I will ask both! I know that um, well I’ve sort of had this undercurrent feeling and I think that’s why I was drawn to being a coach. There is this shift in global consciousness that’s been happening for a while and I heard you recently talk about it on one of your Facebook lives about you know this rise of a new kind of energy in the world and how that might be contributing to a change in the way entrepreneurs work, which is just totally inspired me. Can you talk a little bit about that and share your insights, you know from where you are you’re sitting as an entrepreneur and a … today?

Denise: Oh it’s so complex because I really have seen a shift in the online world a lot in the last year, particularly since the US elections just heated up. I Think that people were burnt out and a bit cynical and they’re just there’s so much noise in online space and this is actually a really good news I think for coaches because I think people are hunkering down and also wanting a little bit more intimacy and a little bit more personal attention than doing a big you know just joining someone’s online program at the moment. And I definitely see that even with smaller events and local things and people doing more intimate you know in person stuff even. You know that almost feels like that’s a huge advantage right now you’ve got that kind of capability because so many entrepreneurs when not doing anyone to one, I’m just going big, I’m just going group stuff and, but the online space is so noisy. So if you’ve got like anything that’s internet, bespoke, in person then you’ve got a… You’ve actually got a really great opportunity right now because women are really craving that. And the other part of that is at the same time there’s a calling for women to really step up and have a say around how things are happening in the world. And that takes money you know for a long time so I’ve seen the entrepreneurial world go, you know what let’s just barter with each other, or you know let’s just keep things affordable for our audience and we’ve kept ourselves very very small and there is an opportunity for us to have more say when we have more money and we have purchase power in our lives. And not only that we’ve created our own economy and I’ve heard this criticism recently where someone said oh the coaching industry its just this big old pyramid scheme, and it’s just women coaching women who are coaching women who are coaching women and they’re very cynical about it. But I’ve seen…No one talks about that by the way for the male personal development industry, which has been around for decades longer than ours. It’s for some reason theirs is legit, ours is this house of cards that’s going to fall down and it’s all fake money. And it’s not. We’re generating real income. We’re generating real changes for our clients. And the cool thing is that when women make more money I mean I just want you to ask this of yourself right, I mean have you hired another woman in any capacity from the success of your business?

Benay: Yes.

Denise: Yeah right. And it could be in big ways and small ways. Have you bought something from a female-owned business?

Benay: Yes.

Denise: Have you got something even like like quote unquote superficial like jewelry or some handmade thing from a woman?

Benay: Yeah.

Denise: We totally do. And then the last question is have you donated some of the excess money that you’ve made from coaching to causes that enrich other women, children, the planet, etc?

Benay: Yes and there is definitely more to come.

Denise: Absolutely right. I mean the thing it’s it starts now. It starts where you’re at.

Benay: Yeah and women do that, they give back in…yeah.

Denise: We do but if we’re all just going to sit in our houses, stay small, not put ourselves out there, not take on any clients, try and do everything in ourselves in our business. We’re not expanding that economy for women and we’re not expanding our purchase power that we could create in the world. So that’s how I am choosing to serve. I have zero desire to become a politician ever, ever, ever, in any country or any form. I’m not even particularly an activist, to be honest, even though I am happy to lend my voice to causes that I’m passionate about. But the way I choose to serve is I want to help people transform their lives and I want to encourage people because I’m an encourager. Rather than guru. I would encourage people to change their relationship with money because most of us women, we’ve got money out there that’s knocking on our door. We know that we’re playing small. We’re not taking all the clients that we know we could. We are not making all the offers that we know that we should be. And we’re really playing small at the moment and my job is just to encourage people to step out of that a little bit, make some money, help other people and the world is only going to get the world is only going to become better when women do that.

Benay: Yeah, it’s interesting that you touched on purchasing power. And so does that mean that you’re an advocate of buying women made products, or is there an equal market, or I’m just curious to explore that a little?

Denise: I don’t think I’ve got like a black and white policy of it, but I just noticing myself I naturally spent my money that way. You know we do hire some men in our business for sure. But I really like hiring other women I really like donating money to causes that enrich the lives of women, especially mothers, but because I just think that that’s where I want to serve right now. I’ve got nothing against men and obviously conscious men who support their women in this, support their wives or their partners, I mean guys obviously have a massive role to play in it. I just know for me, my biggest impact I can make is helping women. Because then they most the time the women say in the Boot Camp, they’re the ones influencing their guys. So I can have an impact on both men and women just for me focusing on women. But yeah guys you’ve got to you’ve definitely got a part to play in it as well.

Benay: So has this concept of women helping women and having this new purchasing power, have you drastically changed any of your trainings as a result of I guess a deeper understanding of this lately or is it all kind of…?

Denise: It’s really funny because the boot camp, Money Boot Camp, we’ve been running since 2012. So it’s a five-year program. It’s gone through four versions of the material, like the actual core of the material has been exactly the same for five years. But I think my energy is different so people are perceiving it in a different way and it definitely has a different intention behind it even though the material is almost exactly the same. So yes I mean my desire for this is borne out of being, my experience as I saw my mum, my aunties, my grandmother with very little power in their own lives because of money. And just power to choose, power to leave a husband who was like a deadbeat. Power to choose where they live. Power to choose a safe car. Power to choose or not choose relationships. And so I know that it starts, that power, that purchase power is all-encompassing. For some women it is literally a choice of where and how they live, for other women, it’s a choice of how they spend their money to influence the world, and others with excess money to spare they can use their money in ways that really do change a lot on a bigger scale. And so that passion has always been there. But the earlier versions probably didn’t have that intention behind it as much because it was more about hey let’s get you making some actual money in your business so you can upgrade things in your life, rather than hey let’s change the planet. But that intention is definitely there now.

Benay: That’s really cool. One of my readers did want to know a little bit about if you could talk a little bit about how you started your Money Boot Camp Signature Program. Like actually the details of how you wrote it and did you start from scratch, did you pull things together from lots of different sources? Like if you could talk a little bit about that process because developing signature coaching programs is a lot of what we talk about.

Denise: I actually think it was divinely guided. The only way I can think of it because I’ve never been as creative like ever because it all just downloaded in such a perfect way and as I said I haven’t even change any of the content in five years because it’s just all there. I actually love the concept of a signature system and so I actually I even did a course about how to develop your signature system through Kendall Summerhawk and I just sat down and went, okay what did I teach people in my one to one coaching? And then what? And then what? And then what? The only change actually happened this round. I actually just moved around some of the content, so the content was the same but I shifted around some of it. So some of it was I moved it up early some of it I moved it later. And part of that was feedback from people, or just where I’ve seen people have roadblocks in the content, and some of it I just wanted to bring some of the earlier wins. Some of the big money wins I see people get. I wanted to move that earlier in the course and it’s yeah but that’s only major change that we’ve done that. Yeah yeah. All my work is based on the same signature system, by the way, to five same steps that I took back in the day with my one to one client. It doesn’t matter what the topic is it is still based on those five steps.

Benay: I think it’s really good for coaches to hear too that your signature system actually can evolve you know, you don’t have to write it once and it doesn’t have to be perfect, you actually can re-order it and stuff like that.

Denise: Yeah absolutely. And you know some bits you kind of, I actually took out a lot of the content that we created around it because the core modules were enough. But each modules I was adding all these extra things you know like oh well then watch this TED talk on the same topic, and watch Oprah talk about it. And people were getting really overwhelmed. So I actually embrace the less is more philosophy, because people need time to, they need time to digest the work. And that was the mistake I made back when I was a one to one coach, in that hour session that some stretched to two hours, I tried to tell it, I just tried to jam it all. You know it’s like let me tell you everything I know on this topic because I want to change your life in this one hour, not realizing that true transformation takes time. People need to digest stuff. And so I took that philosophy back into Boot Camp, simple. And you know what this is the weirdest thing, this round people are saying, ‘Oh Denise you showed up so much more deeply in the course and like I got the lessons much deeper’, and I think he just cut out like 80 percent of the stuff and I actually have been less in the Boot Camp physically than normal. So I just know that that less is more philosophy really does pay off.

Benay: Okay good. I hope everybody who’s listening is hearing that less is more because it is really about the students experience not you needing to prove that you’re you know so amazing and you know everything.

Denise: Exactly. And also that’s just it doesn’t work, it doesn’t actually help people when you try and do the work for them.

Benay: Yeah, so true. Okay. I know that we know that we need to wrap it up, so just in closing what is one piece of advice that if every listener would take away and do today, what would you like them to do.?

Denise: Find a client, see if you like it. Seriously if you’re just starting out, find a client, see if you like it. If you think he’s going to a new area or new niche, find a client, see if you like it. Yeah. And just to just continue with that you know. Like, try not to intellectualize it too much, or find the perfect thing, or the perfect strategy, and make an offer. You know just make an offer. Put a ‘work with me’ button on your website. Don’t make people work to give you money. If you’re giving freebies out all the time, keep doing that but make an offer at the end. Just tell people the next step. And I’ve honestly built a very successful business on very imperfect place holder systems that I was going to get around to fixing and making really sexy one day. Most of the time I never got around to it because of the transformation that people got was enough.

Benay: Yeah I love that. Thank you so much, Denise. It’s just been a gift to have you on this show and all this information that you’ve been able to share with my readers and listeners. I really appreciate it.

Denise: Thank you and you know what I’d really like to ask a favor, if you had an Aha from this podcast, I would love it if you’d tag me on Instagram because that’s where I hang out most of the time these days. My handle is @DeniseDT like screenshot the little thing from the podcast whatever but just let us know what high you had to this call. Because that always makes my day.

Benay: Awesome, okay. And if anybody wants to learn even more about you and your work where is the best place for them to go?

Denise: Well really easy I’m just at DeniseDt.com. So Denise Duffield Thomas is my full name, Denisedt.com. That’s also on Facebook denisedt and Instagram its DeniseDt and Twitter its denisedt. But I’ve got a ton of freebies on my blog so if people want to get some more information about pricing or working with their money blogs and my blog is the best place to go.

Benay: And there’s so much great stuff there. It’s just a treasure trove. All right Denise thank you so much for being on the show.

Denise: Anytime. Thanks, everybody.

Benay: Thank you. And everybody please go and like the show on iTunes. I really appreciate it. Have a great day. And happy coaching.