Connecting with Your Inner Knowing and Intuition(with Peter Wallman)

by | May 24, 2017 | Coach Pep Talk, Create Coaching Products

In EPISODE 10 the founder of Passion Maps, Peter Wallman, explains how coaches can form a deep understanding and genuine bond with clients through his ground breaking coaching technique. We also talk through the logistics of expanding your coaching offer with Passion Maps.


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Read the transcript of Connecting with Your Inner Knowing and Intuition(with Peter Wallman) Here

Benay: [00:00:00] Welcome back to another episode of Coach Pep Talk, the podcast for people who run their own coaching businesses. Each week I talked to an expert who shares wisdom that helps us be better coaches and better coaching business owners. This week I have Peter Wallman on the show who is the founder of Passion mapping. So check us out on the other side.

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Benay: [00:01:05] This week we’ve got Peter Wallman on the show. Peter is the founder of Passion Maps. He is also an Australian based speaker, coach, workshop leader, and facilitator. He’s a world leader in techniques to discover, ignite, direct passion in people and in organizations. He also of course, happens to be the principal facilitator of Passion Maps. He personally trains and accredits practitioners all over the world. Let’s talk to Peter himself and find out if you need Passion Mapping in your coaching toolkit.

Benay: [00:01:40] Hello Peter and welcome to the show.

Peter Wallman: [00:01:42] Hi Benay. Thank you for having me.

Benay: [00:01:44] It is super exhilarating to have you on today as the founder of Passion Mapping. Just a quick little schpeel. I was lucky enough to have my own personal Passion Map facilitated by a wonderful Passion Mapper, Natasha Morales, last year and I’ve had it the whole year pinned right in the middle of my board. I look at it all the time and every time I look at it, seriously I’m back in that moment where my vibration, my energy, my soul is all congruent and exactly where I need to be, I guess, the best me and the best coaching business owner also on the planet. so I’m a huge believer in the process and I’m really excited to be able to bring this coaching tool out to my coaching audience because I haven’t really mentioned it before now. So thank you so much for coming on and let’s… I know that a couple listeners are scratching their heads and like you know, Benay what the heck is Passion Mapping. Just hold on tight because we’re gonna get to it in just a minute, but Peter’s got a really cool story about how Passion Mapping came into existence in the beginning and I think that will help set the stage for all of us to understand this as a valuable asset in our coaching business, so Peter over to you. How did Passion Mapping get started?

Peter Wallman: [00:03:06] Yeah, it’s an interesting story. Most of my career has been in the corporate world. I was a corporate consultant for a while, working with another man and my life was falling apart at the time. I don’t know if you’ve been in that space where you know, you can hardly pick up a cup of tea and work out where you want to move that cup of tea to, everything is indecisive. When I was in that place and Hal, that was the guy I was working with, said, “Peter before we worked on this project I think we should work on you.” He was doing his whole therapy thing. And so his idea was right I write on pieces of paper All of the things that are important to me. So I did that on sticky notes on a whiteboard, moved them around and around. It wasn’t making sense. And then actually some wind blew in the door and blew a couple of these post-its down onto the floor. I was very frustrated. I stamped on one pretty much, really in frustration. and I realized I had quite a strong physical response just to standing on a piece of paper with the words on it. That’s strange. And then I stood on the other one and I had a different response. If there hadn’t been two, I probably thought it was my own frustration, but I have very different response. So I realized that we could find out a lot about ourselves through our bodies rather than our minds. It’s actually about accessing the body-mind through our bodies. Which Seems to me, we to need to give it to a reader anyway. I put that together in the process over a number of years, and I’d just work with friends through difficulties. There. They might have lost a relationship or lost a lot of money or lost their job or going though, you know, have been diagnosed with some sickness. So I just offered this process. Somewhere along the line someone said, “Peter I think this is actually like a Passion Map.” And I thought, well that’s a good name, let’s take that on. So that was where the Passion Mapping name was born.

Peter Wallman: [00:05:23] Sometime later a very good friend of mine said, “Peter I’d like to learn how to do that, will you do this. Will you teach me?” And so I said sure. So I had to get a few people together and I rented to the place to hold it and then I thought, well I’m going to have to charge for this because I’m paying out for it. And so the business was born. and I started running Passion Maps as a business. So the essence of this is that Passion is like energy in the body. Different cultures call it differently. Chinese it’s chi. In Greece it was Eros. So different countries have different, or different cultures have different ways of talking about this energy, the source that it could also be. And so my interest in this whole area is, how do you find out what brings you alive through the energies in our body? And the Passion Map is actually a pattern of all the ways you feel alive. When you create your own pattern or your own Passion Map and stand on it, you have the experience of everything coming alive at once. And it can be a very soulful experience. And pretty much everybody who’s done a Passion Map has a new experience. They’ve never been in that place internally before. Yeah they’re really surprised and that’s a wonderful way to actually create a way forward in your life. It’s a deep place of inner essence and when you’re connected to that you can have a real sense of resonance with the vision for the future, or the sense of what makes life meaningful. So Passion Map is many things but it’s a wonderful coaching tool. One of the things that used to irritate me you know, when I was coached a couple of times is, how do I know that the goals that I’m setting and I’ve been coached into it the best and the best ones? Because I didn’t have a sense they were coming from my essence. So then I became interested in the whole question of Passion Mapping and coaching and how they could both support each other.

Benay: [00:07:40] Having had it my Passion Map facilitated, how you talk about it really being able to tap in to the physical body-mind of your energy and then being able to set goals from that space. And I think for me over the past year I do feel like instead of my goals kind of being outside of me, like aiming for a number or aiming for something, there’s got much more of a heart connection. So Passion Mapping really does help you internalize what’s really important to you. But in all aspects of your life, not just your business. I mean it covers absolutely every component of your life, so it’s a very complete process.

Peter Wallman: [00:08:23] Oh thank you for that. It’s great that you had that experience. I just do want to say one thing about passion itself. You know if you take the view that Passion is energy, and we do have a free download on our website around that, then it’s a very different way of working, rather than working from the head and the power of Passion has a number of ways that now existing itself. First you can track it to source, which is the first part of the Passion Mapping process, I call that in, and then you can use the energy of Passion in the world, and that’s what we call out, which is what most people think about Passion. And there’s also together, because together nothing bonds people faster and stronger than sharing their Passions. So the Passion Map is just a way of understanding those things in a specific and useful way I think. I mean I’ve been on a learning journey with this whole thing for now about 15 years and I still feel there is a long way to go. And I just love, love the stories I get back from people. I get I get stories 10 years later from people I worked with. and recently I have a story of a woman who had a very bad stroke who I knew very well. And she was a complete vegetable and then she, she was actually a high level coach, and she sort of coached herself back into the world again after being told she never walk, and she’d never talk, and she’d never work. She coached herself by imagining her Passion Map, which she’s actually written a book about it. But fascinating, and it makes me think well don’t I have some sort of responsibility to take it to people like that who are locked inside themselves to make you know, to bring life to them. So you know we’re bringing life to people, we’re bringing life to our clients. We’re bringing life to ourselves. Through a process that has now been done 45,000 times around the world.

Benay: [00:10:31] And let’s… Just let’s just so that the listeners have a little bit of a… our visual listeners have a little bit of a visual concept of what a Passion Map is, it’s actually a tangible thing right? Can you just describe what a typical Passion Map actually looks like when you’ve finished it?

Peter Wallman: [00:10:49] Yeah well it’s actually a pattern created in a certain form with ovals. And what we found is that, if we just looked at what people love to do, that was important, but it was actually who we are in the doing of it. So the Passion Map only becomes coherent by looking at the qualities of being that we need in order to live our Passion. There Is typically about five or six elements, we call them, uh which relate to who we are, so the qualities of being and there are about 15 of the things that we love to do and that covers both work and life and relationship and self and all of those things that energizes them the most ways. So you can imagine there’s a large sheet of paper with a number of elements to it and the magical thing that happens is that usually an image arises out of that magically. And that brings the whole map together in a way that’s quite powerful and usually very relevant for the person. So It’s Something that people put up on their walls, it’s something that people put on their mobile phones, it’s something that they put you know as a screen saver because it reminds them of the time when they were completely connected to everything that was important for them.

Benay: [00:12:19] Yeah I’ve been thinking about getting mine as tattoo actually because it was really simple one.

Peter Wallman: [00:12:25] Sorry what was that?

Benay: [00:12:26] I’ve been thinking about getting mine as a tattoo because the picture my picture came out really simple. I just want to say, for people who are listening I just want to say, it’s like about an A3 sheet and it actually has got all these little circles on it with these key words that have intense meaning to you personally. And then through the process they actually evolve into a sort of a shape or pattern. So you have this beautiful representation of all these concepts that are incredibly important to you and they’re arranged into a beautiful picture so you can you can hang it on your wall and it actually is really inspiring. and Then that image actually has a soulful, like uh connection into your body every time you look at it. Ok, sorry, I just wanted to clarify that a little bit further.

Peter Wallman: [00:13:12] No that was good. It’s like we have this deep dive into a place where it comes together and we come back, come back out again. And when you think about a Passion Map, it’s both an experience and a place within ourselves. And it’s a pattern. And it’s a way to look at our lives and to work out what’s important, and what’s missing and how we should focus on how we should focus our lives forward. So for a coach this is really quite a powerful tool.

Benay: [00:13:46] Yeah.

Peter Wallman: [00:13:46] Because They can work at the level of body, they can work at the level of imagination, they can with that level of mind. They can go back to any of these elements and work with them.

Benay: [00:13:59] Yeah, and I do want to talk about that, Peter, because as you know my audience is all coaches. They’ve got a coaching business or they’re about to start one. So can we take a flip now. we know this is an amazing tool for personal development in general. You know, you can do it yourself, you can use it with clients. But how is it a helpful tool, you know, in your coaching business? How can you incorporate it into your coaching business to actually take you and your business to the next? Into a new level?

Peter Wallman: [00:14:28] Well I think there are a number of aspects of that Benay. I think the first thing is, I think it gives us as coaches the opportunity to work from a more powerful place in ourselves and a more centered place. Be more present with our clients. Less likely to be triggered or hooked anything that the client is saying. It builds a deeper trusting relationship with our clients and it allows us to understand our clients a lot more. There’s a certain openness that arises when you work through the process with the client because you’ve really covered the whole of their life. And you know in a sense, as a coach, how what you’re working in fits in with the whole person, and it’s not just that aspect that you know you’re coaching into. It’s actually within the context of who this person really is at the deepest level.

Benay: [00:15:22] For the coaches who are listening who will be like, “Wow, this sounds like a really cool kind of process and I think I’d really like to have this skill set in my coaching business.” Because they could see the power of working at the deeper level with their clients. I’m just wondering Peter, if a coach was going to take on Passion Mapping and incorporate it into their I guess existing coaching processes even, would they do a Passion Map with their clients right at the beginning of their client relationship? Is that the right place? Or can they do it any time or…?

Peter Wallman: [00:15:54] Well There’s a number of really successful coaches who use the program, use Passion Mapping. Generally, they do it at the beginning. They may have one probably, we usually have one session first. in The first session that they’re working through the whole coaching, the laying out what happens in the whole coaching program. So if you incorporate Passion Mapping that you really need to have about six sessions probably as a minimum, and of those three would be the Passion Mapping process. Others have 10 sessions. So, the first is to play up the whole coaching journey if you like with your client and with him that what the Passion mapping parts are, and then so we have a very successful coach, high level coach who really does programs with 10 sessions. And the first is a check-in, the next three-person mapping and then the next six are really working both with conventional coaching means and also with the outcomes of the Passion Mapping part. Different coaches have different techniques. And one of the things that I’ve been wanting to ensure is that this will work with any coaching technique that actually acknowledges that the body is an important part of our life and how we make decisions.

Benay: [00:17:36] Mmmhmm

Peter Wallman: [00:17:37] I think women generally have a better understanding of their inner lives than men do, so we tend to have more women who are facilitators and coaches. But I think that’s generally the case anyway. I think there are more female coaches than male coaches. But, I know it works for both and often men have a more powerful experience because they’re not they’re not so aware of their inner lives sometimes. Especially if they’re sort of corporate people.

Benay: [00:18:11] So what I’m hearing then Peter, is that if a coach wants to take on this concept of a Passion Mapping into their business, they can be in any coaching niche? It’s just an extra tool to add into their toolkit. Is that a fair interpretation?

Peter Wallman: [00:18:29] Yeah absolutely. They could be, they could be sports coaches. they Could be career coaches. They could be life coaches. Executive coaches, whatever. I mean we’ve had doctors, we’ve had in programs, we’ve had we’ve had mentors, we’ve had psychologists, we’ve had all sorts of people. Anyone who works one-to-one, where it’s a benefit to know the person better and to work with the whole person, or the deeper part of some of your client is going to benefit from this.

Benay: [00:19:04] I can even see that from a business perspective, if you’re a business coach and you’re trying to hone in on niche and purpose and mission behind a business. You know delving into that business owners Passion Map to support all of that work could be really powerful too.

Peter Wallman: [00:19:20] I’m just thinking one of our coaches who runs leadership programs around the world, one of the world’s best known brands. He just uses them to create connections with his clients. He works with these high level executives to create a bond and an understanding of them and can work better with better with them and in other programs that aren’t necessarily Passion mapping programs.

Benay: [00:19:48] I want to stay in the department of how this can help your coaching business. For the coaches who are thinking, oh wow, you know, I can really see… I’d love to have this sort of deeper connection tool in my coaching business to work with my clients. And you know and also to extend your coaching offering because if you can get you know six to 10 sessions by adding this into what you’re doing, that’s obviously going to be an attractive thing to a coach. I just wonder when somebody, if they were going to add a Passion Map experience or facilitate a Passion Map for it let’s say just take a one-on-one client. What would somebody charge for something like that?

Peter Wallman: [00:20:32] Well I guess the experience of the coaches who’ve worked with it is that they charge their normal rate or their normal rate plus a little bit. There’s a small charge for materials for every map. So that’s normally charged back to client. But you know in my experience you know, people using the program are charging anything from a hundred dollars to five hundred dollars an hour. A Passion Mapping program takes about six hours. So you’re talking about you know, probably 750 bucks or dollars to you know some thousands of dollars. It depends on where the coaches are coaching and what their rates are. But I think what the experience also is that it can help to increase rates. And it can also help to generate clients. And when people do the facilitator program, we give them a framework for running a small introductory program with the number of people, with a group of people, which can lead into a whole Passion Mapping experience and can help to generate coaching clients.

Benay: [00:21:49] If somebody comes on to be trained as a Passion Map facilitator they get trained also how together like a workshop to a group of people. Be a teaser in to come on and buy this one on one session next.

Peter Wallman: [00:22:01] Yeah. And they also can get referrals from us. They can potentially join our, if they have the experience and they’ve got the runs on the board they can join a corporate program if we have one going. And yeah they have a number of ways of generating business. Yeah I mean I think it also creates a possibility of creating a little community around this work, because you do see the world a little differently once you’ve actually been to this place of deep essence and integration. The world does look different and we look different. So you know in a lot of corporate programs that we’ve run we’ve done that for individuals and spouses because you know there’s a possibility of both moving to the same place together. And the relationship programs that are also part of the training program, enable people to work with couples, first as individuals and then with the couples and then I think that’s my favorite work. I just love it. You know seeing a couple that’s been together for 30 years just completely generate a new sense of who they are together and what they want to be together in the world is really exciting.

Benay: [00:23:26] Oh wow, I I’m sure of the relationship coaches here are listening and just like ears totally like perked up. I can imagine that would be incredibly powerful to have you both headed in the same direction.

Peter Wallman: [00:23:41] Yeah well it’s quite remarkable actually when a couple, even the first step of a couples program you know is, what’s our hearts intention of Being together? And most couples haven’t even done that. Just doing that one little thing. It’s very powerful.

Benay: [00:23:56] It’s huge yeah.

Peter Wallman: [00:23:57] If they can create a whole Passion Map about you know, what’s most exciting and inspiring and energizing for them as the couple, it’s fabulous you know. And especially, you even find out what Passions you don’t share and that’s just as important. Because you can’t expect someone to share the Passions that you have yourself. And often we do that. So that’s the relationship program, It’s part of the training program. So people do the training program they do, the ones we’re running now are involved doing your own Passion Map, doing training program, do an introduction to coaching with Mapping, do the relationship programs there’s a lot of there’s a lot of content. There’s a model of doing a workshop and then doing practice and then accreditation. So it’s a very rigorous process to get involved in and it uses… It uses a range of modalities often not familiar with people and so you know they need to be familiar and practice them. So typically a program is five days long and the first two are doing Passion Maps in group situation, and the next three are about learning to facilitate and also about business. How to generate business.

Benay: [00:25:26] This is great. It sounds like you really cover all the bases and the materials are very comprehensive and geared towards actually going out there and selling it. What I find with some coach training, you’re really good at learning the skills you’re not necessarily given the tools you need to go and get clients onboard. Attract clients to it. So I like how this program is helping people set up that workshop to attract people into the whole process. That’s one thing that’s really good.

Peter Wallman: [00:25:56] Well I think there’s also the question of continual learning. So we have best practice seminars once a month where facilitators can come together, or coaches can come together and discuss what they’ve learnt and what they might have tried, or you know to try and get the best practice and get the experience of other people around the world and have people in Canada and the US in Europe and Australasia few in Asia. No one in South America yet. Yes, that’s you know we’ve got people around the world and that’s exciting to really connect with them about their experiences and what they can bring to the table for other facilitators, other coaches. Yeah there’s a whole range of… I mean we’ve been around for a while I mean with most of the work we were doing in the early days was in high level corporate work. So bringing it to a broader base of coaches is something that I wanted to do for a while and we are now reorganizing the business so that can happen more effectively.

Benay: [00:27:07] That’s really funny how I just sort of called you at the right time saying can you please be on my podcast Peter? I ‘ve been sitting on it for a whole yea, but all of a sudden I was like, the time is now.

Peter Wallman: [00:27:19] That was the most extraordinary and I want to say something about serendipity because A lot of the people that do programs suddenly experience the most amazing serendipitous events, and I’ve been trying to make sense of this. You know why do these people that do Passion Maps suddenly find serendipity all over the place? And my sense is that you know, we’re part of two unfolding’s. We’re part of our own unfolding with our personal, our own growth and our own life journeys which you know as we become more aware and more evolved as people. But we’re also part of this universal unfolding. And there’s something about being, coming from our essence where our essence resonates with the essence of the universe itself. And events happen. There’s a like a merging of things that happen externally and internally. This is the only explanation I have for why so many serendipitous events happen. and So ultimately we want to live our lives, we want help our clients live their lives on purpose and with ease and slow.

Peter Wallman: [00:28:30] And so if we’re coming from our essence I believe we do that so much better and so much more easily and if we don’t, we can’t. We can’t go there. Serendipity does doesn’t work if we’re not ourselves or it doesn’t happen frequently, shall I say. So what I’m talking about external events that support us even though we often have no idea what those events are.

Peter Wallman: [00:28:59] So the timing of your called to me was absolutely perfect. and If you’d have run it a year ago we wouldn’t you know we were in a redevelopment mode. So there was nothing to offer your client anyway. But now we’ve got a whole range of programs that will come soon in the U.S. or Europe or wherever.

Benay: [00:29:20] Now you’re ready. So we do need to wrap it up for the listeners who are thinking, “oh wow you know this Passion Mapping thing sounds really cool, I might want to just have my own Passion Map facilitated.” If they are interested in exploring that, what’s the best way to proceed with that?

Peter Wallman: [00:29:38] They Probably need to come through us, they can go they can go to our Facebook page and connect with us personally on that Facebook page. They can come to a website and they can put an expression of interest there. The website is

Benay: [00:29:55] And if they want to, of course you know become a Passion Map facilitator and take it to a whole new level Then you’ve got a whole program of trainings all over the world happening over the next year, is that right?

Peter Wallman: [00:30:07] Yeah that’s right there and there are a number and they’re still evolving, people… This is a serendipitous thing as soon as we sort of restart the business people popped up all over the place wanting to run their own Passion Maps in their area and that’s a fourth way you know, if you’ve got a group of people together we can come and run a program where you are, so it’s best to contact us and see what your specific needs are. And we like to follow the energy of the people. If people have energy for our work we’d like to support them.

Benay: [00:30:44] I love the organic serendipitous evolution that you’re following with this work and I think I’m really happy and proud to help get the word out there too to a couple more coaches and… Oh you know you also have a couple of really free downloads on your website too. What is Passion? And I think there’s a lot there’s actually a whole suite of them. If any coaches want to check out those freebies that are just like downloadable pdf’s on this topic then I’ll include the link to that page in in the show notes and I’ll also include the link to Peter’s Facebook page and the Passion Mapping website, so you have all the links with the show notes.

Benay: [00:31:28] Any parting words or advice you’d like to leave our coach listener’s with this afternoon?

Peter Wallman: [00:31:35] Actually I think Passion is energy and that most people work with the mind rather than the energy of the body, or energy of life. So if you focus on the energy of life you get a very different outcome than if you do everything intellectually.

Benay: [00:31:54] OK, Peter let’s wrap it up there. Thank you so much for being on the show today and introducing this wonderful concept of Passion Mapping to the coaches who are listening.

Peter Wallman: [00:32:06] Thanks Benay, and thanks listeners.

Benay: [00:32:06] And thank you everybody for listening and for following the show. Please you can help us by going in and liking the show on iTunes. Okay. Have a great day everyone and happy coaching!



  1. Vibrating with Passion and Mission | Universal Coaching Systems - […] interviewed, Peter Wallman, the inventor of Passion Mapping a while back on Connecting with Your Inner Knowing and Intuition…

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